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In the summer of 1999, leading Mexican television presenter and famed UFO researcher,

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Hammy Masan, made a welcome return visit to Britain to appear at selected venues up and down the country,

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as part of UFO magazine's Millennium UFO Roadshow.

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During the breaking proceedings, we managed to persuade Hammy to take us through some of the remarkable footage he had brought to this country,

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more of which you will see later in the program.

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Well, here we are once again for another special interview for UFO's hard evidence,

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and I can't think of a more special person to bring to this particular videotape than the one and only Hammy Masan.

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Hammy, terrific of course that you've been over here in the UK this summer attending our Millennium UFO Roadshow.

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What did you make of all the various venues and the people that you've met here in England?

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It's been an extraordinary experience.

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It's been a very special time for me because I have received a good welcome, a lot of attention,

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kindness from you, your family and everybody who is around this phenomenon.

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I am really happy, excited to be here, especially because I think England is just starting to see Scotland,

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what we have been seeing in Mexico since the eclipse.

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And it's very coincidental that you are going to have an eclipse in the August 11th of 1999.

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And I think the evidence shows that you are going under the same path that we observe in Mexico, especially in Mexico City.

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Now for the benefit of those people who are new to this subject, and there's a lot of young people out there

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who are just beginning to learn what a fascinating topic it is that we deal with,

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the eclipse of course that sprang Mexico to prominence occurred in July of 1991.

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And we have some videotape of course from that period.

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What was so special about that eclipse and what was so special about the videotapes that followed?

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I didn't know anything about the eclipse.

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I just experienced, I went to an island, I saw the eclipse was beautiful, the second longest in the century.

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And then we had these videos with the UFOs, not just in Mexico City, but also in Puebla and in Tula,

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in three different cities, three different states, it seems, three different UFOs.

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Then I started to investigate and I found that there were special prophecies made

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more than a thousand years before this eclipse.

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And they were telling us, especially the Mayan prophecy that you can find at the Dresda Codex,

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that this eclipse could bring the end of the big lords and they would have to go and leave

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room for the new lords.

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It could be the end of the Jaguar Knights, probably the war in the world,

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and it could be the time of the meeting with the Masters of the Stars.

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And that was amazing to me because it was a message.

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And if you observe the evidences and you see three different UFOs in three different cities at the same time,

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with an incredible eclipse, you have to understand that something very special happened in Mexico that day.

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And the most important thing is that the Mexican people became aware of this phenomenon.

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Many people started watching the skies, especially with a camera on their hands,

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and they were able to record in many occasions these UFOs, not just in the eclipse,

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but in many, many times after the eclipse.

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For that reason, these eclipse became so important for Mexico.

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We didn't know how important until we received the evidences.

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We knew how important it was after the eclipse.

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Okay, so I suppose for many, many people, the sight of several objects in the sky at any given time is considered to be amazing.

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But here we are in Mexico, and once again, we have these extraordinary images of not several UFOs,

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but numbers from...

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50, 180, 150.

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I mean, it is absolutely...

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Tell me, we have this very, very rare image of several UFOs.

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It's a still photograph taken near the volcano.

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Was this the first occasion where more than...

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No, no, no.

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This picture you are seeing close to the volcano is from 1996.

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The first occasion was on the 27th of September 1992.

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This man, who listens to Hino, was recording a long object,

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looked like a worm or a cigar shape object standing over Mexico City.

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Then he realized that over his head, horizontally, horizontally, we're flying at least 18 different objects.

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And what you can observe in these videos is that they are moving along the way, and they don't never lose the formation.

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They never lose the figure, the shape of the figure.

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Even though they move, they keep that.

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That was the first time.

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On the 24th of October 1994, we have the second video from Mr. Tomás Islas,

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and now you can see probably around 30 objects or so, and they are standing still.

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They don't move, and this is two o'clock in the afternoon.

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Then six weeks later...

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Because some people have suggested that these are constellations.

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In the Twilight Zone.

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Yes, yes, that's what they say.

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What can they say, you know?

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This is two o'clock, all of these videos.

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If we record these videos at night, they could be stars.

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No question about it.

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I mean, at least you see 20 stars moving at the same time.

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But let's say they are still, you can see them.

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No, the incredible thing with all these videos that we are watching now,

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is that they were recorded at daylight.

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And that's very important.

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Now these are incredible, and you've mentioned this thing that looks almost snake-like,

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organic.

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Now we also have a curious piece of footage taken from the space shuttle.

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And here we can see this thing in outer space.

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We're looking down on Earth, and it seems to be...

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Like a worm.

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Like a worm.

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Yeah, it moves like a worm.

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This was recorded on September 1991.

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I think it was STS-48.

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It was from the Discovery Shuttle.

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It was releasing a satellite to measure the depletion of the zone layer.

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For some reason, we recorded this object that I believe was coming out from North America.

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You see the clouds under it, and you can see how this object is ascending,

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is rising from the Earth, and is going into the stratosphere.

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Has there been any explanation of you asking for it?

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No, not at all.

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No, yes, I have asked, but you know that.

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When they don't have an explanation, they just keep silent, you know?

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What do you make of this?

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These are two videos that were released in 1997.

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The first video is from 1984.

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This, I believe, was the Discovery Shuttle again,

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and they were making some reparations fixing the satellite Palapa-22.

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And at that moment, you can see a sphere that is coming from inside the space,

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you know, makes some intelligent movement and goes away.

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It's just for a few seconds.

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But if you see this closely, it's very clear that it's an sphere.

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And again, in 1991, from the Atlantis, I don't have the number of that mission,

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but I know what's from the Atlantis.

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You can see this sphere again making some intelligent movements in front of the shuttle,

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and then going away.

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But what about it looks like a fleet of spheres here?

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In this next sequence, viewed from the space shuttle,

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has there been any explanation, official or otherwise, been put forward for this?

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You know, we see these spheres darting about the sky,

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and then here we are now in the top left-hand corner of the screen,

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and there are dozens of them.

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NASA, NASA.

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Yeah, this is this video from the Mir laboratory.

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Again, again, the Discovery Shuttle was going close to it.

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We can see in the left-right corner, in the left-upper corner of the screen,

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some like 20 things, spheres passing by.

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No, there has not been given any explanation around this.

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Probably you could have some because as long as I have asked, they just smile and turn around.

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You know, it's the easiest way to not to say.

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Not to say anything when you don't have an answer.

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These are videos that don't have easy answers.

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The name James Bond Johnson was unfamiliar to most UFO enthusiasts until only recently.

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But the photographs which Bond Johnson took in the offices of General Roger Ramey at Fort Worth,

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Texas back in July 1947 are legendary.

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During a brief visit to England in 1999,

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we caught up with Bond Johnson at his London hotel.

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In this exclusive interview, we learned not only about the man and his role as the

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photographer who snapped pieces of an alleged UFO that crashed at Rosswell, New Mexico,

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but how a chance meeting with a senior retired United States Air Force military figure many

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years later led to a claim that more than one UFO had been retrieved and stored at Wright-Patterson

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Air Force Base.

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Just a reporter.

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Just a reporter.

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Right.

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I didn't, I was not officially a photographer.

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I had purchased my own speed graphic and because I worked out hours as a police

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reporter working nights, late evening and so forth, I bought my own camera.

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I had been an amateur photographer since I was a kid and so I spent some of my war bonds and bought a

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So how old would you be then?

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I was 21.

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21?

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Yes.

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And would you say that you were an ambitious reporter?

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No, I was just working my way through college.

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For what specific aim?

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What was your sort of career ambitions at that time?

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My first degree was in journalism and I was after I was working there, I was planning to follow that up.

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And I graduated from, I see I started to college in the fall of 1942, right after

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I was a senior in high school when Pearl Harbor happened in December of 1941.

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And then I finished the next summer and started into college in September.

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And I was a year ahead of my colleagues and I would have probably stayed over and

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gone another year to high school except when the war started then there was the urgency

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to for everyone to get as much education as possible.

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What were the thought worths to our telegram?

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What kind of circulation would that have had in those days?

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It was the largest newspaper in the south.

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That was it in the south of Texas.

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No, the south of the United States.

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Really?

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Yes.

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It was a morning evening and Sunday and the combined circulation was the largest in the south.

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Now I don't know how it compares today.

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Probably the Dallas Morning News is larger now.

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But it was just a morning paper.

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The Dallas News was a morning paper.

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We had a morning afternoon and Sunday.

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The morning evening and Sunday they called it.

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So the combined circulation made it the largest.

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So you were in the offices where you were told to get over to the base?

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And what triggered that was this flash message that came from the Associated Press saying they

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were flying this flying saucer from Roswell to Fort Worth.

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Had you prior to that, had you any indication whatsoever that anything untoward had occurred

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at Rossville?

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Had there been any rumors on the media grapevine?

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No.

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This came right out of the blow.

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Yes.

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They were looking for, as I said, the two weeks preceding.

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There was a front page article every day in the paper about the flying saucer incident.

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And people were looking and they were casting about and they were reporting that they had found one on the beach.

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When we talk about the flying saucer incident for the record, we're referring to the Kenneth Arnell incident.

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That would have triggered all of the media hype and the public attention.

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Yes.

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So you were familiar in some respects with what had taken place in Washington State?

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Yes.

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That was...

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You received this flash fire pressure association.

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How far would the base have been from the offices of the Fort?

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It fits within a half hour.

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A half hour.

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And did you drive out there?

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Yes.

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What was your car?

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This is for the car enthusiasts.

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Was it a vehicle?

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I had a brand new 1947 Ford Club Coupe that I paid 15.94.21 for American.

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And with including a signal seeker radio and seat covers.

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What else do you want to know?

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But I was very proud of that car and I got it through the Stark Telegram in 1947.

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I'd been on waiting list.

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See, I came home from the war at the end of 45.

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And I had sold my car when I went in service.

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And so I was riding in cabs.

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And fortunately our newspaper owner also owned the Yellow Cab Company.

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So that made it easy to get about.

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But I wanted my own car.

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And I'd been on waiting list.

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You signed up at different places and would put it on a deposit and wait for a car.

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Who was your immediate boss?

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So you supervised it?

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His name was Cullum Green, was my city editor.

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And he's the one that came over and said,

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Bon, you have your camera because see, I was not normal.

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And yeah, I said it's out in the car.

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I kept it in the trunk of the car and said,

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well, go out to General Ramey's office and they're bringing in a flying saucer.

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No, because this was everybody was expecting that sooner or later somebody would come up with one.

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They're out there and now they've captured one and they're bringing it to.

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And that was a logical thing because this was eight of the headquarters of the airport.

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Here you are.

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You're in your vehicle.

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You've got a 30 minute drive or so to the base.

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You've been sent by the city editor.

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You're 22 years of age.

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21.

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21 years of age.

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And you're on the brink of potentially the most important news announcement or discovery

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on the history of the planet.

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I mean, that didn't compute.

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That was not, it was not that.

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And I've been.

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This is the thing you say.

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I mean, what was going through your mind on that journey from your newspaper desk to Fort Worth?

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I don't have.

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Did you have any kind of idea as to what you might expect?

239
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:48,500
Were you going to be taken to a hangar?

240
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:49,860
Were you going to meet anybody?

241
00:18:49,860 --> 00:18:51,300
Were you going to see anything?

242
00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:52,580
What was going through your mind?

243
00:18:53,220 --> 00:18:56,900
I had been involved in some airplane crashes before.

244
00:18:57,460 --> 00:19:02,340
And in every case, in the past, they had reassembled these in hangars.

245
00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:04,740
That was kind of the MO as it is today.

246
00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:12,500
That's what you, with the Pan Am crash and so forth, they always seemed to find an empty

247
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:15,700
hangar somewhere and reconstruct it to try to find out what happened.

248
00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:19,220
That was what I would have expected.

249
00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:22,980
And I still remember, I remember only a few incidents.

250
00:19:22,980 --> 00:19:27,380
You know, our memory, I think, could be described as being in soundbites.

251
00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:32,580
That is what we just remember, little snippets of, of thing.

252
00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:36,420
And, but there are the few snippets that I have of that day.

253
00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:38,340
So you arrive at the base.

254
00:19:39,860 --> 00:19:46,420
Are you not then surprised to be taken instead of a hangar or an area where, like you say,

255
00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:50,660
you might expect to see something that has been assembled from the wreckage and the like,

256
00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:53,780
but instead to a carpeted office?

257
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:54,580
That's correct.

258
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:56,180
That did not make sense.

259
00:19:56,180 --> 00:19:58,660
Why would, and it doesn't to this moment.

260
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:02,820
You've literally entered this room, you've seen the carpet.

261
00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:06,980
What was it about that room that you looked at?

262
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:08,100
What, what happened next?

263
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:15,700
I remember my consternation, the fact that there was this junk piled on the floor,

264
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:19,700
not very photographic or photogenic at all.

265
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:25,780
And now I've got to, you know, this is one of my really, I guess, first assignments.

266
00:20:25,780 --> 00:20:28,340
I had only had the camera for a month or two.

267
00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:35,460
And so this was really one of the first times that I had been assigned to do that.

268
00:20:35,460 --> 00:20:40,660
Otherwise, I had gone like covering a speaking engagement or something,

269
00:20:40,660 --> 00:20:45,140
and you take a head shot of the speaker, that kind of a thing, or a handshake

270
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:50,020
kind of a picture of two people, which you get a lot of on a newspaper.

271
00:20:50,660 --> 00:20:54,260
And here was the first time that it was really a spot news assignment.

272
00:20:54,900 --> 00:21:01,300
And it was so, I can remember being disappointed and frustrated because it was so unphotogenic.

273
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:05,540
Did you say that to anybody who might have been with you in the room at that time?

274
00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:06,580
When you first went in?

275
00:21:06,580 --> 00:21:08,820
No, I think that was my own private thought.

276
00:21:08,820 --> 00:21:10,260
Was there anybody else in there?

277
00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:13,860
I don't recall, I recall Colonel de Beau's...

278
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:15,700
Prior to General Ray me arriving.

279
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:21,860
Right, the Colonel de Beau's met me, and he was expecting the general momentarily.

280
00:21:21,860 --> 00:21:24,100
And he went off to look for him.

281
00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:29,620
I don't have a clear recollection of Marcel at all.

282
00:21:29,620 --> 00:21:31,540
That's just not a part of it.

283
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:33,220
Were there any MPs there?

284
00:21:33,220 --> 00:21:34,660
No, there was no security.

285
00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:37,460
There was no, no more than there is in this room at this moment.

286
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:41,940
It was just, you just go in and you wait and the general be here in a minute.

287
00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:43,940
No other photo, do you remember, at that moment?

288
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:44,180
None.

289
00:21:45,060 --> 00:21:46,020
I do not recall.

290
00:21:47,220 --> 00:21:51,460
I worked five years on the Star Telegram with the interruption for the war.

291
00:21:54,020 --> 00:21:59,060
I do not recall another instance where they sent over the wire photo equipment to transmit.

292
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,660
That was just a very extraordinary situation for us too.

293
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:07,540
So we received but didn't transmit.

294
00:22:07,540 --> 00:22:12,660
Yeah, so you've had your first look inside this room.

295
00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:22,020
Were any of these parcels that you described in meat wrapping paper, were any open at that point?

296
00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:30,420
Yes, there was, what we see in the pictures, the large part of the paper was already unwrapped

297
00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:34,100
and those large sections were there but not laid out.

298
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,980
I arranged them to try to pose a picture.

299
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:39,140
It was just kind of piled up.

300
00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:44,500
It would be like, as I remember, putting a kite together when you'd buy a kite

301
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:46,900
and the sticks and it would be rolled up together.

302
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:52,020
It was kind of like that and you lay it, you know, how you unwrap a kite with the sticks

303
00:22:52,660 --> 00:22:55,700
and to make it so it'll fly.

304
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:57,700
It was kind of that drill.

305
00:22:58,740 --> 00:23:02,580
Were you particularly careful how you handled that debris at all?

306
00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:02,820
No.

307
00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:06,900
It was simply a case of, I've got to take a photo of this, let's do it.

308
00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:11,140
And try to make something photogenic out of it.

309
00:23:12,580 --> 00:23:20,340
Because it was all blackened, burned looking stuff and there was not much contrast as the pictures show.

310
00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:22,340
Yeah, and also it smelled.

311
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:26,020
It was that smell that was there as soon as you entered the room.

312
00:23:26,020 --> 00:23:29,620
Yes, it was and that's what struck me as unusual.

313
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,980
Why did this smelly junk would be piled on the General's carpet?

314
00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:38,420
That was one of the few recollections that I have that didn't make sense.

315
00:23:39,860 --> 00:23:41,460
No one to discuss this with.

316
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:43,380
There were no other media people that were there.

317
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:49,940
I was just there and it was, we were not expecting, I was not sent there as a reporter.

318
00:23:49,940 --> 00:23:54,500
And Phil Claes beat me over the head with this again and again and again saying,

319
00:23:54,500 --> 00:24:00,100
surely you were aware of the importance of this moment.

320
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:03,300
No, it was not that at all.

321
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:05,060
This was a photo assignment.

322
00:24:05,060 --> 00:24:06,260
It was a get out there.

323
00:24:06,260 --> 00:24:09,540
The deadline to the time was the urgency.

324
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:11,700
We're on the East Coast deadline.

325
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,020
You know, get out there, get it, get back here.

326
00:24:15,220 --> 00:24:18,900
And let's get this so it was the urgency of the situation.

327
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:21,380
Did Colonel DeBose come in with General Ramey?

328
00:24:21,380 --> 00:24:21,860
Yes.

329
00:24:21,860 --> 00:24:23,060
They both came in together.

330
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:24,260
The General came in first.

331
00:24:25,220 --> 00:24:26,580
Did he acknowledge you at all?

332
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:31,220
I knew him because I was the military reporter and I had seen him.

333
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:37,940
I had been there, had taken his picture just a few weeks before when General McMullen was there,

334
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:38,500
his boss.

335
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:42,980
And Ramey had just taken over the command from McMullen.

336
00:24:43,780 --> 00:24:47,460
McMullen had moved on up the tape and had gone to Washington.

337
00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:54,660
They had just formed the up-to-eat Air Force with McMullen command and Ramey as his deputy.

338
00:24:55,220 --> 00:25:02,180
And then McMullen was reassigned to Washington and Ramey took over just a few weeks before that.

339
00:25:02,180 --> 00:25:05,860
And I remember covering a part of that.

340
00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:10,820
Did Ramey come in with, was there anybody else that came in with Ramey?

341
00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:15,460
Is Adjutant or any sidekicks at all?

342
00:25:15,460 --> 00:25:16,100
Yes.

343
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:17,940
DeBose was his chief of staff.

344
00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:20,580
Apart from DeBose, that was basically me.

345
00:25:20,580 --> 00:25:22,820
And if there were any others, I don't recall them.

346
00:25:24,580 --> 00:25:26,260
Were there any words exchanged at all?

347
00:25:27,060 --> 00:25:29,940
The only thing I recall was asking him, what is this?

348
00:25:29,940 --> 00:25:34,100
And he kind of shrugged and said, damn, if I know or something like that.

349
00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:40,660
What was it that led to this remarkable statement, if you like,

350
00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:45,780
or response from the General of Brigadier Abekipardin?

351
00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:50,020
In respect of wreckage.

352
00:25:50,020 --> 00:25:51,700
Can we look at that?

353
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:53,300
Yes, we talked about that.

354
00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:57,940
That was just an incidental statement when I said, did you see the wreckage?

355
00:25:57,940 --> 00:26:01,940
Because he was the commanding general at Wright-Patt along with his career.

356
00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:04,100
I said, did you ever see it?

357
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:08,340
Because they talk about it being a hangar 18 or whatever it is.

358
00:26:10,020 --> 00:26:15,700
And I said, he said, and he corrected me and said wreckage is.

359
00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:17,780
And I said, oh, more than one.

360
00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:19,780
He said, yes, we had more than one.

361
00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:24,020
And that was surprising to me.

362
00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:25,540
I didn't know about that.

363
00:26:26,260 --> 00:26:31,380
But I've since read about confirmation of that from other sources.

364
00:26:32,260 --> 00:26:36,980
The Roswell are just one of several that they've captured along the way.

365
00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:41,300
Last edition of UFO's Hard Evidence,

366
00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:46,260
new and outstanding UFO footage has come our way from a variety of sources.

367
00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:52,420
The task of analyzing UFO images falls to UFO magazines, Russell Callaghan,

368
00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:56,820
who literally can spend hours delving over single frames in our quest for answers.

369
00:26:57,540 --> 00:27:01,540
Here, Russell expands on some of the most puzzling and striking images

370
00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:03,620
that have crossed his desk in recent months.

371
00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:07,620
Hi there. My name's Russell Callaghan,

372
00:27:07,620 --> 00:27:11,700
and I'm sure over the past few years, some of us have actually met face to face.

373
00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:14,660
And in the making of UFO's Hard Evidence,

374
00:27:15,380 --> 00:27:19,780
we've covered incidents that's affected people's lives, people like yourself.

375
00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:24,900
It's been a privilege working alongside UFO magazine,

376
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:31,540
who are very professional in the approach to publishing material

377
00:27:31,540 --> 00:27:33,460
that's not always too easy to accept.

378
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:39,700
The mainstream media don't want really to get too involved with the subject.

379
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:41,540
They'll take a fleeting glance at footage,

380
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:45,220
and they'll put footage out on the six o'clock news or something like that,

381
00:27:45,220 --> 00:27:49,140
and once it's seen, it's gone, never to be seen again.

382
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:55,540
Places like local television stations, local news magazine programs.

383
00:27:56,340 --> 00:28:02,420
They'll take footage from people as a curiosity item, if you like, on the running order.

384
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:04,420
And that's literally all it's ever been.

385
00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:10,100
With UFO's Hard Evidence, we've tried to expand on the subject,

386
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:12,580
on what people are seeing, on what people are feeling,

387
00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:17,380
and how people are actually relating to the events that happen,

388
00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:19,460
and sometimes get caught on camera.

389
00:28:21,140 --> 00:28:23,700
I've been backgrounding television over 20 years,

390
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:30,820
and I've seen equipment advance rapidly over the last five or six years.

391
00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:36,820
And it's these advances that have made it possible for us to bring UFO's Hard Evidence to you in a format that's

392
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,980
quite professional, looks like a television program.

393
00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:42,180
That's what we're trying to do.

394
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:50,180
We're not trying to emulate the X-Files or some big documentary that may be screened on the Discovery Channel or something like that.

395
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:52,500
The budget just doesn't allow.

396
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:56,420
What we do try to do is get out there, meet the people who matter,

397
00:28:56,420 --> 00:28:58,980
and bring their stories to people like you.

398
00:28:58,980 --> 00:29:04,580
The enthusiasts, the researchers, people who are wanting to learn more and more about this subject.

399
00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:08,340
I'm also responsible for the website.

400
00:29:09,620 --> 00:29:14,500
And this has proven a great tool for us here at the magazine.

401
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:17,540
For the simple reason, the magazine's a bi-monthly publication,

402
00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:25,620
and breaking stories can sometimes be six and seven weeks old before they actually hit the newsstand on the magazine.

403
00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:31,700
So it's a privilege to have a tool like the internet where we can get things out there instantly, if you like.

404
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,620
I can update from my desk here at UFO Magazine.

405
00:29:35,620 --> 00:29:39,220
I can get the information out, published on the web in a matter of minutes.

406
00:29:39,780 --> 00:29:41,540
And it's bearing fruit.

407
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:48,420
We've started just recently logging on to reports from local groups, from individuals,

408
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:54,740
and being able to link to the local groups' websites and to be able to get the information straight to the researchers,

409
00:29:54,820 --> 00:30:02,020
straight to the reporters, and, as we say, bearing fruit in the sense that other groups who have had similar reports at the same time,

410
00:30:02,020 --> 00:30:06,420
or on the same night, or on the same day, are able to compare notes.

411
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:08,500
And it's compiling the evidence.

412
00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:11,140
And that's what UFO's hard evidence is all about.

413
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:16,420
It's about presenting material that's not too easy to just discard.

414
00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:23,140
Now, the footage you see now came from a gentleman called Chris Martin.

415
00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:31,380
Chris has had several experiences in his life and has been fortunate to record things that he couldn't rightly explain.

416
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:35,860
And this time, I think he sort of struck the jackpot.

417
00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:40,740
He lives in London and he was filming in Broad Daylight.

418
00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:46,900
And we can see the panorama shows Crystal Palace there in the background and Canary Wharf.

419
00:30:46,900 --> 00:30:49,220
We can see many famous landmarks.

420
00:30:49,780 --> 00:30:53,060
And all of a sudden, we see this sphere around object,

421
00:30:54,180 --> 00:31:01,780
something that's not too easy to mistake as an aircraft or a helicopter or a landing light or a bird or a balloon.

422
00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,820
As our friend, Hamim Hasan, pointed out earlier on,

423
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:13,700
spheres have been reported in numbers since 1991, since the eclipse over Mexico City.

424
00:31:14,580 --> 00:31:18,900
And they have got hundreds and hundreds of hours of similar footage.

425
00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:26,740
This one, as you can see, seems to be probably the best sphere footage we've ever seen in this country.

426
00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:33,700
And it's flying over London, over the centre of a major capital of the world.

427
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:39,300
Let's not forget, we've got Eto Airport on one side, we've got Gatwick away to another.

428
00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:41,300
We've got the London City Airport.

429
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:45,220
The skies above London are some of the busiest skies in the world.

430
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:47,860
And this thing just seems to be meandering.

431
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:54,180
Across the skies, performing manoeuvres that don't seem normal for aircraft.

432
00:31:55,460 --> 00:32:00,340
Certainly, I wouldn't want to be eating the packed lunch on an airplane, doing these sort of manoeuvres.

433
00:32:00,980 --> 00:32:08,260
And when it comes to analysis, all we can do is discard this has been anything as normal aircraft.

434
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:13,860
And as you can see, as we watch again, this thing was viewed for several minutes.

435
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:16,820
What's interesting about footage like Chris's,

436
00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:22,340
it's not just a fleeting glance, it's not something that somebody's captured in an instant.

437
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:28,420
There it is, the tape arrives and the footage has started recording with the object there.

438
00:32:28,420 --> 00:32:31,220
And it ends before the object goes anywhere.

439
00:32:31,220 --> 00:32:36,980
We're just seeing the focal object on the screen for a short brief period of time.

440
00:32:36,980 --> 00:32:43,860
In Chris's case, we see the object come into view and we see the object go out of view.

441
00:32:43,860 --> 00:32:49,220
As we pointed out with Brian McFeece footage from Stirling in Scotland,

442
00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:55,780
on the last volume of Hard Evidence 3, this guy filmed some amazing stuff.

443
00:32:55,780 --> 00:33:00,740
And just a quick reminder here, we can see the clips very similar to the manoeuvres we're seeing

444
00:33:00,740 --> 00:33:06,260
in Chris Martin's footage. And we've got to say that these are two of the same thing.

445
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:09,940
And I certainly don't think in this case that we're watching aircraft,

446
00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:13,780
even military performing manoeuvres, that don't do this over London.

447
00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:19,460
For goodness sake, can you imagine a high-powered jet over London and something going wrong?

448
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:21,460
It will be absolute carnage.

449
00:33:22,420 --> 00:33:24,020
And again, back to Brian McFeece.

450
00:33:25,460 --> 00:33:28,100
This guy spent a lot of time behind the camera.

451
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:34,100
He's had a lot of patience and he's sat there and he's filmed for hours and hours and hours.

452
00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:39,300
And some instances he didn't actually know if he'd recorded anything until he managed to get home

453
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:43,300
and sit and re-watch again for hours and hours and hours.

454
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:47,940
Over viewing the footage, checking every single frame.

455
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:49,620
And again, both route.

456
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:54,260
Brian has filmed some remarkable objects, as we saw in Hard Evidence 3.

457
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:59,460
But this time, the object that Brian filmed was something a little bit special.

458
00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:01,860
Let's watch. It's very quick.

459
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:07,940
And the objects flying over his house and all of a sudden it appears to split in two.

460
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:13,300
Now, that's not military. That's not civil aviation.

461
00:34:15,140 --> 00:34:19,460
Where does it go? If we see the split, we can slow it right down for you.

462
00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:22,740
And you can see in slow motion that this thing does seem to separate.

463
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:27,140
But the second object appears to go nowhere.

464
00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:30,820
It's there for just about five or six frames and then it's gone.

465
00:34:31,620 --> 00:34:33,620
Now, it's evidence like this.

466
00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:36,980
It's videos like this that we need people to see.

467
00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:40,500
Hence the reason for putting it on Hard Evidence.

468
00:34:41,620 --> 00:34:44,180
It's the only tool we've got is UFOs, Hard Evidence,

469
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:47,940
to guarantee that the footage will go out in its entirety.

470
00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:54,580
I can't understand why television news companies and documentary makers tend to

471
00:34:55,140 --> 00:34:57,300
steer away from this sort of footage.

472
00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:00,180
Because believe you me, this is riveting.

473
00:35:00,180 --> 00:35:03,620
Again, let's just watch as the object splits in two.

474
00:35:04,420 --> 00:35:05,620
I can't explain that.

475
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:11,300
In analyzing the footage, all we can say is that this is something that's not normal.

476
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:15,300
This is something that is very, very difficult to explain.

477
00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:20,500
We've shown this footage to our friends at the local airport

478
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:22,900
and they come up with the same answers.

479
00:35:23,540 --> 00:35:25,380
What is it? We don't know.

480
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:31,860
But, Brian and people like Chris Martin are there, keep filming these objects.

481
00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:36,180
I wouldn't say it was a very easy thing to fake.

482
00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:39,220
Let's face it, if you were going to fake something,

483
00:35:39,220 --> 00:35:41,220
you'd fake something that looked like a UFO.

484
00:35:41,860 --> 00:35:46,260
But you know, one of my theories are, over the last 50 years,

485
00:35:46,260 --> 00:35:48,980
some of the earliest footage recorded on film,

486
00:35:48,980 --> 00:35:51,460
16 millimeter film, the Trematum film,

487
00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:53,780
and we'll just have a quick look at it here in the background.

488
00:35:55,380 --> 00:36:00,500
Round spherical objects, balls of light, self-luminescent,

489
00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:03,940
have been filmed for 50 years.

490
00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:05,860
This is not a new phenomena.

491
00:36:05,860 --> 00:36:10,660
This is something that even the US military, in their terminology,

492
00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:17,220
in the press statement for the release of this material back in the 50s,

493
00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:20,580
referred to them as self-florescent spheres,

494
00:36:21,140 --> 00:36:28,340
a term that Hammy Massan's captured and clung to for describing the sightings over Mexico City.

495
00:36:29,140 --> 00:36:34,980
And just to finish off, this one, well, maybe we can't call it a sphere as such,

496
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:39,780
but just watch this. This is stock footage of a B2,

497
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:43,700
a stealth bomber as it takes off.

498
00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:46,420
And look, look what happens behind it.

499
00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:51,780
We see one of these glowing particles, whether it's a sphere or not,

500
00:36:51,780 --> 00:36:55,460
I don't know, this one needs a lot more time spending on it,

501
00:36:55,460 --> 00:36:57,300
even though it's only a brief clip.

502
00:36:58,180 --> 00:37:00,820
We have got to find out exactly where this footage was filmed

503
00:37:01,780 --> 00:37:03,140
and who took it.

504
00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:04,580
But watch again.

505
00:37:04,580 --> 00:37:09,460
There we have B2, the America's most expensive aeroplane,

506
00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:13,140
one of the most expensive flying machines ever built.

507
00:37:14,020 --> 00:37:18,260
And clear as day, it's being followed by an unidentified flying object.

508
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:28,980
Fern is not only one of Britain's most accomplished and articulate UFO researchers,

509
00:37:29,540 --> 00:37:35,060
but thanks to his literary prowess, he's gained a much-deserved worldwide reputation for uncovering

510
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:39,140
facts that most UFO skeptics and debunkers struggle to counter.

511
00:37:39,940 --> 00:37:45,060
In this exclusive interview, Nicholas talks about one of the cases he chose to investigate

512
00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:48,260
for his sensational new book, Cosmic Crashes.

513
00:37:48,260 --> 00:37:54,020
One of the most contentious stories concerning crashed UFOs in general and certainly in Britain

514
00:37:54,020 --> 00:37:58,100
are the allegations surrounding this Burwin Mountain incident in January 1974.

515
00:37:58,740 --> 00:38:04,740
Now, I wrote a chapter in Covert Agenda concerning the claims of

516
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:10,260
that something had impacted on the Burwin Mountains in January 1974,

517
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:16,340
that strange helicopters, unmarked helicopters, strange lights were seen around the country

518
00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:21,140
in the same time frame, that there was a high-level military involvement,

519
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:24,660
that some form of object had possibly been retrieved, and so on.

520
00:38:24,660 --> 00:38:28,580
Well, I concluded the writing for Covert Agenda in,

521
00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:31,940
around about the end of 1995, despite the fact that the book didn't come out till

522
00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:39,460
1997. But in the intervening year 1996, Tony Dodd surfaced with this story,

523
00:38:40,420 --> 00:38:45,220
allegedly coming from a retired British Army guy, given the pseudonym of James Prescott,

524
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:53,220
stating that he was involved in the retrieval or the transportation of alien bodies from the

525
00:38:53,220 --> 00:38:58,660
Burwin Mountain site to the chemical and biological research establishment at Porton Down.

526
00:38:59,220 --> 00:39:05,860
Now, this without doubt is an extremely controversial story, there's no getting away from that.

527
00:39:05,860 --> 00:39:10,820
And I think I would not deny that in recent months, particularly Andy Roberts has done a lot of

528
00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:17,300
in-depth research, and personally, and I've told Andy this, I'm personally convinced that he has,

529
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:21,300
without any shadow of a doubt, answered some of the more controversial

530
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:24,340
claims surrounding that particular incident. I'm absolutely convinced of that.

531
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:31,060
But there is still the problem of this guy who surfaced. Now, when I was doing the research

532
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:37,300
for Cosmic Crashes, I spoke and interviewed a lot of people who may have had involvement,

533
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:42,260
not in the case, but researching it and so on, just to get their perspectives, Margaret Fry,

534
00:39:42,260 --> 00:39:48,180
Jenny Randalls, Matthew Williams, Andy and people like that. And what's,

535
00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:56,020
in particular turned out, or what I found, was the fact that this guy, James Prescott,

536
00:39:57,220 --> 00:40:02,340
I can't confirm that the guy exists, Matthew, Jenny and the, none of them have been able to

537
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:07,940
confirm he exists, none of them have been able to get past Tony, so to speak, to try and determine

538
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:14,500
who he is and so forth. But when I, I did some filming at the Public Record Office in 1996

539
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:19,860
for a BBC documentary called Out of This World, and shortly afterwards I was contacted by a guy,

540
00:40:19,860 --> 00:40:25,460
a very credible guy, it turns out, who used to work for ATV Television, it's no central television,

541
00:40:25,460 --> 00:40:33,940
when it was in ATV in the 1970s. And in January 1974, he was part of a news team which would do

542
00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:39,300
outside broadcast, you know, if there'd been a car smash on the M6 or something, they'd go out there

543
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:45,940
or a bank raid, something like that. And he told me that they'd received a report of a fairly

544
00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:53,700
interesting UFO incident which had occurred in the Hensford area of Canock Chase on a particular

545
00:40:53,700 --> 00:40:59,860
night in January 1974. Now for those who aren't aware, Canock Chase is sort of a huge, literally

546
00:40:59,860 --> 00:41:06,980
massive sprawling forest area in Staffordshire. Well, he told me that he couldn't remember the

547
00:41:06,980 --> 00:41:12,100
details of how they determined the exact location, but it was in the Hensford area of Canock Chase,

548
00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:18,180
which is sort of in the thick part of the forest. They managed to get out there, it was snowing that

549
00:41:18,180 --> 00:41:25,620
night. When they got out to the particular site, they found two guys sitting by the edge of a field

550
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:34,260
in a car, an old A40 car, I think it was, and no less than about 10 troop carriers, army lorries,

551
00:41:34,260 --> 00:41:41,620
with about 100 or so troops milling around basically or hell breaking loose. And the gist of the story

552
00:41:41,620 --> 00:41:49,140
was these two guys had seen what they initially thought was a plane coming down in a field.

553
00:41:49,140 --> 00:41:55,300
It looked like a fireball, something trailing behind it. When they pulled up and managed to get

554
00:41:55,300 --> 00:42:02,100
out to the field, they described as a flying saucer. Now when I pressed the ATV guy, he said

555
00:42:02,180 --> 00:42:08,100
that was literally the description they gave a flying saucer. Well, the ATV team pulled up at the

556
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:14,980
field, army was milling around, wouldn't allow them in the field, wouldn't allow them basically to do

557
00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:21,940
anything. But they just said we're like a Voxpop team as he described it from ATV. Voxpop, it's

558
00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:30,260
sort of an outside broadcast term that they use. And they did a small interview with the driver

559
00:42:30,260 --> 00:42:36,500
who seemed to be very, very ill, sweating, he just got shirt sleeves on yet it was throwing down with

560
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:43,620
snow. Now when they done the interview, one of the cameraman, when they got back to the van,

561
00:42:43,620 --> 00:42:49,780
the cameraman actually snuck out the back of the van and sort of did a detour, quite a long detour

562
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:56,020
around and went into the field from the reverse side, got into the field and found a huge circular

563
00:42:56,020 --> 00:43:03,940
burn mark within the field. Now he got this down on tape or on the ancient equivalent of video tape,

564
00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:10,020
whatever they had at the time. And they took it back to the studios. Now the following day,

565
00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:16,180
he said people came in from the home office and removed the film. Now that in itself sounds like

566
00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:23,140
an ex-filish type scenario, but he was able to present to me evidence showing he worked at ATV,

567
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:29,140
he named all the people involved in the crew. I know their names, I know where some of them

568
00:43:29,140 --> 00:43:34,820
work, some of them overseas now, but they were working for ATV at the time. He went on to work

569
00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:41,780
on a number of well-known films afterwards, including Razor Titanic, McVicar, and then he went over to

570
00:43:41,780 --> 00:43:48,180
the States to work as well. But what's interesting is that if you tie this in with the story that

571
00:43:48,180 --> 00:43:55,220
Tony relates concerning James Prescott, well in the Birmingham Mountains case and in this

572
00:43:55,220 --> 00:44:02,660
Canock Chase story as well, you've got military presence at two fairly spectacular alleged UFO

573
00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:10,180
sites in Britain in 1974, both in January 74. Now in the Birmingham case, we know from the

574
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:16,020
testimony of some of the people involved that there was a fall of snow that night. In the Staffordshire

575
00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:22,740
case, the witness told me that it was snowing heavily. So it may well have been the same.

576
00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:31,220
No, but it's entirely possible given that it was definitely January 74 and it was snowing

577
00:44:31,220 --> 00:44:35,380
on the Birmingham location, it was snowing in the Staffordshire location, this could well have

578
00:44:35,380 --> 00:44:42,260
occurred at the same time frame. Now in Tony's account, oh sorry, in James Prescott's account

579
00:44:42,260 --> 00:44:48,500
that he gave to Tony, he said that his unit were based down south in the south part of England

580
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:55,300
somewhere, but they received, and this is the bizarre aspect of the case, they received advanced

581
00:44:55,300 --> 00:45:02,020
notice that they were going to be required to take part in some form of operation. And he said on the

582
00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:08,100
specific nighting question, they headed north up towards Birmingham. Now Birmingham is a stone's

583
00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:15,060
throw away from Canock Chase, so it's entirely possible that if Tony's witness is being truthful

584
00:45:15,060 --> 00:45:22,020
and honest, that the team that eventually made its way to north Wales was the very same one

585
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:28,180
seemed swarming over the chase. Now given the fact that Tony saw said they had prior notice

586
00:45:28,180 --> 00:45:34,340
that they were going to be required, when I spoke with the ATV guy, he told me that the

587
00:45:34,340 --> 00:45:39,140
incident at Canock Chase hadn't been reported by the two guys in the car because they were just

588
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:45,060
sat there in shock basically. So I said well how do you explain that? And then he, and his opinion

589
00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:50,180
or his conclusion was that the Army again had got advanced notice that this was going to take place,

590
00:45:51,380 --> 00:45:56,180
which would allow them to get to the scene in time to take charge of whatever went on.

591
00:45:56,820 --> 00:46:01,700
So again you've got another parallel there, the fact that you know James Prescott is saying

592
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:06,260
that he had advanced notice, this guy is saying that at Canock Chase the Army were already there,

593
00:46:06,980 --> 00:46:13,620
ready and prepared to take charge of the situation. Now in addition to that, when I interviewed Jenny

594
00:46:13,620 --> 00:46:19,860
Randalls with regard to the Burwin allegations and so on, she told me that she'd been lecturing

595
00:46:19,860 --> 00:46:25,860
the Unconvention, the 14 times Unconvention in 95 and was approached by a journalist, a science

596
00:46:25,860 --> 00:46:32,660
journalist on a National Sunday newspaper who said that he'd been doing some research for a story

597
00:46:32,660 --> 00:46:41,620
concerning quite an alarming raise in childhood cancers in the area. Now the guy from the Canock

598
00:46:41,620 --> 00:46:50,180
Chase case, the ATV guy, he told me that one of the two guys in the car who saw this UFO come down

599
00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:55,940
and actually went out towards it, suffered radiation burns and actually died very very

600
00:46:55,940 --> 00:47:00,420
quickly afterwards from his injuries and I've been looking into the allegations concerning

601
00:47:00,420 --> 00:47:06,180
where he was taken, where he died and so on and I've literally hit a brick wall not because

602
00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:12,340
I can't track people down but because everyone I'm tracking down has really climbed up and I don't

603
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:19,140
mean just like, I mean almost to a level of fear being expressed shall we say.

604
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:27,540
Also the last few months UFO magazine has helped to disseminate striking new UFO images

605
00:47:27,540 --> 00:47:33,300
leaned from space via NASA's own space shuttle transmissions. Most may have seen example of

606
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:39,220
these in our specially produced videotape, The Secret NASA Transmissions but now, thanks to

607
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:44,980
Hammy Moussan, two striking new sequences have come to light. What might the debunkers make of

608
00:47:44,980 --> 00:47:50,180
this object as it descends through Earth's atmosphere? Notice that the object appears to cut

609
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:55,140
through the atmosphere with little evidence of burn up and if there was the slightest suspicion

610
00:47:55,140 --> 00:48:00,980
that the mysterious object may have been an ice crystal, think again. Just watch how the cameraman

611
00:48:00,980 --> 00:48:06,100
on board the space shuttle follows the object as it picks up speed high above Earth's atmosphere.

612
00:48:07,060 --> 00:48:12,900
Even when the sequences slow down, the amazing speed of this unidentified flying object is apparent

613
00:48:12,900 --> 00:48:16,900
for all to see.

614
00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:58,900
Music

615
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:03,940
Most UFO enthusiasts are by now familiar with the extraordinary footage of mysterious

616
00:49:03,940 --> 00:49:09,380
spheres seen hovering and maneuvering around the MIR space station and STS-84.

617
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:16,500
Skeptics, debunkers and even NASA themselves maintain that these are nothing more than ice crystals.

618
00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:22,340
But now look at this amateur camcorder footage taken by an anonymous scientist from within the

619
00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:27,860
Russian Space Center headquarters itself. Look at the displays, they are genuine enough.

620
00:49:28,740 --> 00:49:34,420
Now look at the giant TV screen which shows the MIR space station, apparently surrounded by a group

621
00:49:34,420 --> 00:49:40,580
of static spheres, while others pass by from different directions. These are incredible images

622
00:49:40,580 --> 00:49:46,660
that defy all logic and convention. Truth can indeed be sometimes stranger than fiction.

623
00:49:57,860 --> 00:50:24,900
Music

624
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:30,900
Edgar Mitchell was the sixth man to walk on the moon. In recent years, he's championed the UFO

625
00:50:30,900 --> 00:50:37,540
cause by proclaiming that extraterrestrials are real and not imagined, that UFOs have been retrieved

626
00:50:37,540 --> 00:50:43,700
and their technology is put to use. In this exclusive interview, Mitchell expands on his reasoning

627
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:47,380
with Hammy Massan and reaches some profound conclusions.

628
00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:56,420
Music

629
00:50:56,420 --> 00:51:04,020
There is a new reality, a reality that hasn't been accepted by science. The possibility of

630
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:11,060
in the air to be visited by some other intelligence. What do you think of that?

631
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:22,180
Well let's break that issue into two parts. Until the last 20 years, both in science and in theology,

632
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:29,860
the idea that we were alone in the universe was the prevalent conventional wisdom. It was even

633
00:51:29,860 --> 00:51:35,700
stated at the beginning of the space age by the British astronomer Fred Hoyle who said,

634
00:51:35,780 --> 00:51:42,900
Copernicus disabused us of the idea 500 years ago that we were the geometric center of the universe,

635
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:47,220
but we still insist on believing we're the biological center of the universe.

636
00:51:48,340 --> 00:51:55,620
When I went to the moon in 1971, it was still conventional wisdom both in science and in theology

637
00:51:56,500 --> 00:52:01,300
that we were the biological center of the universe. No one believes that anymore.

638
00:52:02,020 --> 00:52:09,300
The model that I propose, which I call my dehydric model, in which I write about my book, The Way of the Explorer,

639
00:52:12,820 --> 00:52:21,380
suggests that life in the universe is evolved everywhere, that environmental conditions permitted,

640
00:52:23,460 --> 00:52:29,620
which means that life could have been somewhere, even in our galaxy,

641
00:52:29,620 --> 00:52:36,100
a billion or so years before us, possible, and there will be life forming in the universe a

642
00:52:36,100 --> 00:52:48,580
billion years after us, or longer. The question is, have they found us? We haven't found them yet,

643
00:52:48,580 --> 00:52:56,660
but have they found us? Mathematical studies of the size of the universe and the ability to

644
00:52:57,460 --> 00:53:05,300
evolve and travel the universe suggested any civilization 500 million years older than ours

645
00:53:05,300 --> 00:53:13,060
could very well have traveled through the universe and found us. So it is a possibility. Now the question

646
00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:24,820
had me. There is no what I call smoking gun evidence in the public domain that says yes,

647
00:53:25,220 --> 00:53:32,740
but we have an enormous amount of anomaly, so-called UFO sightings. We have a great deal

648
00:53:32,740 --> 00:53:42,500
of circumstantial evidence that says we have been visited and that the official agencies responsible

649
00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:52,500
for investigating this have covered it up. I have no firsthand experience here. The what experience

650
00:53:52,660 --> 00:53:57,940
I do have is talking with people in the American government,

651
00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:03,300
both in the military and in intelligence,

652
00:54:05,620 --> 00:54:11,380
whose official duties were a part of the investigation, and they say yes.

653
00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:22,180
What our current effort is involved with is to get these people who have had experience over

654
00:54:22,180 --> 00:54:31,540
the last 30 or 40 years with these events to be able to come forward and speak openly before our

655
00:54:31,540 --> 00:54:39,060
Congress about what they did and what they know and what their experience was. All of these people

656
00:54:39,060 --> 00:54:45,220
operated under high security clearance and were not permitted officially at the time

657
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:53,780
to talk about what was going on. It is now time to do that. And so our effort, mine, and those

658
00:54:53,780 --> 00:55:00,820
of many of my colleagues, is to get this knowledge, whatever it is, made available to the public.

659
00:55:01,940 --> 00:55:04,740
It's not a simple phenomenon we're dealing with here.

660
00:55:07,060 --> 00:55:14,260
Personally, I think that the evidence says yes, but it even more than that,

661
00:55:15,220 --> 00:55:25,060
I think the evidence says that alien technology has been utilized by people on earth.

662
00:55:26,340 --> 00:55:34,740
And that perhaps many of the sightings that people around the world are making now are not

663
00:55:34,740 --> 00:55:43,540
due to alien technology, to aliens, but to humans using an alien technology. That seems to be where

664
00:55:43,540 --> 00:55:51,860
the evidence points right now. Can I prove that? Can I confirm that now? But the evidence is becoming

665
00:55:51,860 --> 00:55:57,460
so overwhelming. We also know, and I work with very high level people who do know,

666
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:07,140
we don't have those types of technologies in earthbound arsenals, military. They don't have

667
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:15,700
it. So where is it coming from? Who has it? And it's not apparently all alien. There is reason to

668
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:24,660
believe that some technology has been utilized by perhaps government and military people.

669
00:56:25,700 --> 00:56:31,940
On the other hand, our current government and military is totally naive about this.

670
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:38,340
In other words, it's been separated away from government. And that's very alarming.

671
00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:44,820
Why do you think this reality was separated from the people?

672
00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:56,580
Historically, it goes back to shortly after World War II. And if there were, and I say if,

673
00:56:56,580 --> 00:57:04,340
there were, was a crash at Roswell, New Mexico, as claimed, the evidence seemed to suggest there was,

674
00:57:04,980 --> 00:57:11,220
then there was reason probably for the government to classify this very highly. People would be afraid,

675
00:57:11,940 --> 00:57:18,500
the military would have to admit we can't defend against alien presence, and there needed time

676
00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:25,140
to think about it and to decide what to do. But as often happens when you classify

677
00:57:26,260 --> 00:57:38,580
secret or very high secret classifications, very soon politicians and temporary people in government

678
00:57:38,580 --> 00:57:44,660
aren't considered reliable enough to have that information. So suddenly they're excluded from

679
00:57:44,660 --> 00:57:52,420
the information and it becomes a very tight group of people who have the knowledge and all of a

680
00:57:52,420 --> 00:58:00,180
sudden power exerts itself. That seems to have happened. And it seems that about 30 years ago,

681
00:58:01,940 --> 00:58:12,260
high level politicians, leadership, presidents, high level military officer no longer were given

682
00:58:12,260 --> 00:58:21,300
access to the information. And it became a clandestine group. That seems to be what's happened.

683
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:29,140
And if so, it's very dangerous because no government of the world has control of it.

684
00:58:30,180 --> 00:58:35,780
Not even the U.S. We blame the U.S. government. But I know the U.S. government leadership is

685
00:58:35,780 --> 00:58:43,540
naive. They do not know. But something's happening here. Someone knows. Someone is doing this.

686
00:58:44,100 --> 00:58:45,940
And I don't believe it's all E.T.

687
00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:56,820
And now, here's a selected sample of some of the latest UFO images gleaned from around the world.

688
01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:42,820
So

689
01:02:52,580 --> 01:02:58,020
Fado Balducci is a leading Vatican official who has sprung to prominence in recent times with

690
01:02:58,020 --> 01:03:04,100
his outspoken views on the extraterrestrial hypothesis. Like Ed Gemichel before him,

691
01:03:04,100 --> 01:03:09,860
Balducci believes that UFOs and extraterrestrials are real. Intriguingly,

692
01:03:09,860 --> 01:03:15,380
Fado Balducci has not been rebuked by the Vatican for professing such controversial opinions.

693
01:03:15,380 --> 01:03:21,540
Instead, it would appear he has their full support. Leading German UFO researcher Michael

694
01:03:21,540 --> 01:03:27,140
Hessiman managed to catch up with Balducci while attending a UFO conference in Italy earlier this

695
01:03:27,140 --> 01:03:32,420
year. See what you make of Carado Balducci in this rare and exclusive interview.

696
01:03:34,820 --> 01:03:46,820
No, there is not any conflict. It's understandable to believe in them. And nowadays, at this very

697
01:03:46,820 --> 01:03:54,580
point, and this is valid for every one of us, it's necessary to accept that there is some

698
01:03:54,580 --> 01:04:00,900
reality behind extraterrestrials and the flying saucers, behind the so-called ufology in a general

699
01:04:00,980 --> 01:04:12,340
sense. And we should believe and not only because of faith. I mean, we should not deny the existence

700
01:04:12,340 --> 01:04:20,340
of this phenomenon. And of course, its implications. And this is because there are already so many

701
01:04:20,340 --> 01:04:28,180
witnesses. Today, maybe thousands of them, thousands of witnesses. And for that, to deny

702
01:04:28,180 --> 01:04:34,820
systematically and giving to all of this this sense of suggestions, to frauds, or well, insanity

703
01:04:34,820 --> 01:04:41,620
is not fair. By doing so, would mean to destroy the value of human testimony. And the fact of

704
01:04:41,620 --> 01:04:51,540
the existence of other beings and the kind of beings they could be, maybe lower than us in nature,

705
01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:58,420
or well, beings of the same nature than us, beings like ourselves, or well, superior beings.

706
01:04:59,620 --> 01:05:03,140
And all of this is possible, all the three choices are possible.

707
01:05:05,220 --> 01:05:12,740
And everything, I just said, is not against the religious teachings. The head of all the universe,

708
01:05:12,820 --> 01:05:23,140
even with extraterrestrials, even with the so-called bios, flying saucers, the UFOs, and so on.

709
01:05:26,260 --> 01:05:33,140
The head of all of these things is always Jesus, because he is the king of the universe.

710
01:05:33,140 --> 01:05:41,700
And then, when science will be able to give scientific proof of the real nature of these

711
01:05:41,700 --> 01:05:49,060
beings that are extraterrestrial, and when obviously these contacts will become more frequent,

712
01:05:50,100 --> 01:05:57,060
and also more divulgated to all of us, not only the fact of the contacts itself,

713
01:05:57,060 --> 01:06:02,740
but also letting us know the nature of these extraterrestrial beings, then it's obvious

714
01:06:02,740 --> 01:06:11,540
that the church will know how to conciliate with no doubt its statements of today refer only

715
01:06:11,860 --> 01:06:18,820
to our days, to the beings we are, from centuries or well, millenniums, human beings, that we are,

716
01:06:18,820 --> 01:06:26,660
maybe from thousands of millennium, with the time that will be conciliated all the

717
01:06:26,660 --> 01:06:29,620
truths that today are limited for our human understanding.

718
01:06:32,820 --> 01:06:37,940
On the 23rd of July this summer, Russell Callahan and Graham Burtzell travel to visit

719
01:06:37,940 --> 01:06:42,580
R.E.F. Fairford in Gloucestershire, England to preview this year's Royal International Air

720
01:06:42,580 --> 01:06:48,180
to Two. They had the good fortune to be present along with the rest of the world's press to see

721
01:06:48,180 --> 01:06:54,020
the arrival of the fabled B2 stealth bomber. Not only that, but they later managed to conduct

722
01:06:54,020 --> 01:07:00,180
a brief interview with no less a person than the pilot of the B2 himself. It was an extraordinary day,

723
01:07:00,740 --> 01:07:05,620
which began with the arrival overhead of this equally extraordinary aircraft.

724
01:07:37,940 --> 01:07:43,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

725
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:47,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

726
01:07:47,620 --> 01:07:51,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

727
01:07:51,620 --> 01:07:55,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

728
01:07:55,620 --> 01:07:59,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

729
01:07:59,620 --> 01:08:03,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

730
01:08:03,620 --> 01:08:07,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

731
01:08:33,620 --> 01:08:37,620
The aircraft was then able to arrive at the airport in the early morning of the year.

732
01:09:03,620 --> 01:09:21,380
Did you carry out an air refuel over here? Was it just one? We had two. We had two just so that we

733
01:09:21,380 --> 01:09:25,460
didn't need to, but the second one we didn't want to have to worry with the fuel in here on the field,

734
01:09:25,460 --> 01:09:29,940
so we pumped it up, probably fall here, and now they can fly it, take off and head home without having to refuel it.

735
01:09:29,940 --> 01:09:37,140
It's a big step up from an F16 to a B2. Was that something that you selected to do?

736
01:09:37,140 --> 01:09:42,420
I did. I applied for the job. The job is still a fly application and selection process.

737
01:09:43,140 --> 01:09:47,220
All the records are reviewed by the wing commander on base, and he makes the final selection of who comes

738
01:09:47,940 --> 01:09:54,980
to fly it. We certainly, at this stage of the game, don't need anybody who doesn't want to be there for the starters,

739
01:09:55,540 --> 01:10:00,900
and we certainly, with this type of airplane, need the guys who are a little bit above their peers in their performance.

740
01:10:01,940 --> 01:10:06,820
I was interested to hear you talk about the new technologies. This plane was rolled out at

741
01:10:06,820 --> 01:10:14,500
Palmdale, California, 10 years ago. How long do you think it will be before we're on to the next stage

742
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:19,300
of stealth aircraft, and we're all here? Will it be another 10 years before we're looking at something

743
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:25,220
even more bizarre, or what do you think? This is air vehicle number three. It was built in 1982.

744
01:10:26,020 --> 01:10:31,780
So it was built a lot more than 10 years ago, but if you took that plane then, when it was rolled out,

745
01:10:31,780 --> 01:10:36,260
and what it is now, it's a totally different airplane. As we've sent them back and started with our

746
01:10:36,260 --> 01:10:41,460
Block 10 training aircraft, we went to our Block 20 limited weapons employment aircraft,

747
01:10:41,460 --> 01:10:48,020
to our final full operation with capable aircraft, they go back to Palmdale and they get totally

748
01:10:48,020 --> 01:10:52,500
stripped down. It's a totally different airplane. So as technology has advanced, the airplane has

749
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:57,460
kept up with that advance. Because you'll appreciate where my question is coming from. There's all

750
01:10:57,460 --> 01:11:03,460
kinds of weird and wonderful rumors coming out of Nevada and California about the next generation,

751
01:11:03,460 --> 01:11:11,220
and do you ever hope to fly one of these things if they exist? It would be great. Thank you.

752
01:11:11,860 --> 01:11:18,580
Astonishing stories, incredible images, fascinating revelations. They endear themselves to one of

753
01:11:18,580 --> 01:11:23,860
the world's greatest mysteries. But in the past couple of years, the layers that have protected

754
01:11:23,860 --> 01:11:29,940
this mystery for decade upon decade have begun to be peeled away. The evidence is indeed

755
01:11:29,940 --> 01:11:35,860
overwhelming, but then we already knew that. But perhaps it wasn't enough. Perhaps more

756
01:11:36,020 --> 01:11:40,500
information, more evidence was required to make the world's media sit up and pay even closer

757
01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:45,620
attention to what is occurring around us. We will continue to assist toward that goal.

758
01:11:46,980 --> 01:11:51,780
The truth is out there, and it's only a matter of time before we see that truth shared with the rest

759
01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:57,620
of the world. We trust that you've enjoyed watching this special edition of UFO's Hard Evidence,

760
01:11:57,620 --> 01:12:02,660
and hope to have the pleasure of your company again in the not too distant future. Until the

761
01:12:02,660 --> 01:12:08,820
next time, we thank you for your continued support.